Murder, Mayhem, & Miles - Halloween & Salem Witch Trials with Wellness Witch Tarot, Colleen Conroy

Hey, fellow true crime fiend,

Happy Halloween! We have made it! Our 28-day journey discovering murder, mayhem, and getting in those miles has come to its conclusion! 

We kicked off the fun back on October 10th and have met some really interesting "characters" along the way. Here are links to recap!

• 10/10 Lizzie Borden
• 10/17 Angel of Death
• 10/24 Jolly Jane

However, today we will celebrate Samhain, or All Hallow's Eve, with a special edition of Running Scared and a great conversation-paced workout! 

We will hear from Colleen Conroy of Wellness Witch Tarot, practicing witch and mindfulness coach, and former resident of Witch City, aka Salem, as we uncover the history of the witch trials, debunk some myths, and learn more about cool places to see and things, to do when visiting Salem. 

First and foremost, let's make sure you stay in touch with Colleen as she gets ready to launch the first season of the Wellness Witch Tarot podcast. Sign up for her email list here>>

And, while there, celebrate Halloween and "treat" yourself to one of her amazing tarot reading sessions, sign up for her coaching, OR get a gift card for the holiday season for a few of your best "witches."

Don't forget to join the Tea & Tarot community here >>

A few of the must-visit places mentioned during this episode for when you are planning your trip in Salem are:

The first witch shop in Salem was opened by the "Official Witch of Salem," Laurie Cabot Crow Haven Corner, or visit her current shop,  Enchanted.
Or you could go full-on tourist and get your photo op on with the Statue of Elizabeth Montgomery. Learn more about it on Atlas Obscura here>>

And, in case you are wondering about those decks that were mentioned in the episode they are here:
Halloween Tarot
Modern Witch Tarot based on a traditional Rider Waite deck
Moon Void Tarot

We will be using RPE found here >>

I'd love you to join the Running Scared community on Facebook, where you get to weigh in with your thoughts and requests and get invites to special true crime-focused events and fun upcoming challenges!

You can find i

Transcript

Christine Hetzel: 0:04

Hey friends welcome to running scared with Coach Christine will this is it, we have made it to the final episode of The Murder, Mayhem and mileage challenge. I'll get into those details really, really soon. But for right here right now, let's get you moving and grooving with your warmup walk in three, two. And one. Of course, we're always going to warm it up my friends, this gives me ample opportunity to give you some housekeeping notes. Let you know what you can expect for today. But more importantly, it really is so good for your body. To go into that warm up. It lets you get a little looser, a little lighter. It also just helps it work out feel easier. Trust me on this, it may not feel that way when you're first in your warmup, but don't skip it, it is quite important. So first and foremost, you are listening to a true crime podcast. So you know, I'm going to tell you to be a little bit cautious. Be mindful when you're rolling through outside if you're out for a run or a walk. Please be aware of your surroundings. Make sure that someone knows where you're at, that a loved one knows when to expect you or how to get a hold of you. If you're inside you're rolling through on the treadmill or an elliptical machine, a stair step or any kind of cardio machine inside for this workout. I would like you to please be mindful of your form, stay nice and tall, engage that core is not the opportunity to be leaning over those arm rails or handrails that display. Go ahead and engage that core from the very beginning. And of course, it's so important that wherever you're at you are setting the intention. And we're gonna talk some a little bit about intentions today during our history and storytelling, but set your intention for having a good strong workout. I mean, it's Halloween, why wouldn't you have a great workout today? So friends thank you again for joining in on the Murder, Mayhem and mileage challenge at this point we have reached Salem. Yes, Salem, we started all the way four weeks ago and Fall River took our journey up to Boston and then made it here for the Salem witch trials right in time for All Hallows Eve and Halloween. And friends. I'm hearing from a couple of you guys. You know your history. A lot of you may already live in the Northeast or you've absolutely been a big fan. You've may have gone to Ceylon, you know your stuff. So you didn't think that this Florida girl was going to try to take this approach of giving you some history lessons all by her lonesome. Absolutely not. I brought in a true pro. I cannot wait to introduce you guys. During our first conversation paste a segment to Colleen Conroy. And you'll learn more about how we got to know each other and why she was the first person that came to mind when I knew that I wanted to record a Salem Witch Trials episode. But let's talk about today's a workout here at running scared I use the RPE effort. It's the rate of perceived effort. And what this does is this allows us to really make this workout our own you can use it however you need because I'm not going to tell you to run at this pace or to use the stairclimber at this particular incline or pace or effort. You just listen to your body and where you're at in your fitness journey so that scale one to 10 one is an easy peasy lemon squeezy straw. Maybe you're out for a Salem Witch tour we'll learn about some of those tours that happen in Salem later on. 10 is an all out sprint like Uber shares a murderer on the loose or in this particular Halloween spooky episode. There is a witch hunt on the loose and they are looking for you you need to sprint for your life. So we're not going to really hang out at either of those segments right here. Right now we're going to have an eight minute conversation pace segment, which puts you at that three to four on the effort scale, then you'll have a two minute pace change. You can pop up the incline during that two minutes, pop up your pace into a harder effort or pullback into a gentle walk whatever you need for yourself. We'll have another eight minute segment with another two minute pace change. And then we will wrap things up with a 20 minute go in the distance conversation pace segment. Yes, we are going to get it in my friends getting in those miles, getting in those steps or chasing after our particular mileage challenge to make sure that we have hit that Progress Tracker and then we'll wrap up with a five minute walking cooldown because just like our walking warmups are important or walking cooldowns are just as important. There's actual science that shows it helps to reduce any chances for injury or stress, not 100% but it does minimize your chances of injury by about 3% and that is just as important right? We want to stay as healthy as we possibly can, which is why I am so looking forward to having Colleen on Killeen from the wellness which taro organization, it is her own and she developed it as you guys will learn because wellness is very important to her as well. So friends without further ado, let's get right to it into our very spooky, very fun. And finally, the culmination of all of these great miles we put in together in three, two and one let's get into that conversation pays Hey friends, well I have been teasing for quite some time are very special guests. But without further ado, now that you have popped on up into our first eight minute conversation paste segment, I am going to bring on in the one the only Colleen Conroy Hello, Colleen.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 5:50

Hi, thank you Christine for having me on the show. I am so excited.

Christine Hetzel: 5:54

One of the very few things are first things I did when I thought of running scared was spooky season because I love love Halloween. And I thought there is nobody else that I could think of that I would want as a guest but Colleen to come on and join me in helping me tell the Salem witch trials and that entire experience because I want to make sure I get it right. And you living in Salem, and we're gonna discuss a little bit more. But being a practicing witch, I feel like there's just so much that you can help me to make sure that I don't say the wrong thing. So thank you for being willing to join us for this conversation face workout and giving us a little bit more details.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 6:30

My pleasure. I love talking about Salem and about all things witchy enter grime. Yeah, it's a perfect marriage here. So

Christine Hetzel: 6:40

Colleen, I we're gonna go ahead if you're okay with it, I would love to go ahead and get into kind of learning a little bit more about the history of how what we have come to know as the Salem Witch Trials kind of came to be and how we got started with everything. Well, if you're ready, we'll go ahead let you take it.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 6:58

Yeah, so we're gonna start prior to the arrival of the European colonizers in the area we know now as Salem in Massachusetts, it was previously called non cake, which means fishing place. It was inhabited by the NAM qEEG of the Massachusett tribe. And it's located on the coast about 60 miles north of Boston in Massachusetts. So the Salem Witch Trials happen in 1692. And although far fewer people were executed for witchcraft, in Salem, and in the witch trials of Europe, the witch trials in Salem, continue to captivate the interest and attract tourists from all across the globe to this city of about 45,000 residents, especially in October, where half a million tourists descend on the city for that month alone. Salem truly embraces Halloween. And if you love Halloween, you should definitely put a visit to Salem on your bucket list. And each year the numbers of tourists keep seem to keep going up and up. They're like having record tourists already this year. We're only like, part of the way through the month. And it's just like through the roof. Yeah,

Christine Hetzel: 8:16

so basically, you're saying that I need to start planning, right? This very incident if I want to make it to Salem, 2028. Yes.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 8:23

Yes. You cannot plan too early. Yeah, that's like people think they're like doing a good job planning, like in the summer for a fall visit in October visit? And nope. Everything is typically like sold out hotels, all the things at that point?

Christine Hetzel: 8:42

Well, I can see that for a myriad of reasons. Of course, it's fall. And there's that aspect of kind of, I assume, wanting to see some of the fall foliage change in that area as well. So you guys may have more folks coming up for that. But it seems like it's really tied to Halloween. Yes. Is there a specific reason as to why that maybe.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 8:59

So they just really do it up for Halloween, I think because it's known for the witch trials. And then that just has kind of like, attracted all manner of Halloween attractions. And there's a lot of festive balls that happen throughout the month of October. And just yeah, a lot of really great fun tourist activities that you can do. If you love Halloween, people just walk around dressed up in costumes, just a lot of street performers. It's a little bit like living inside of a, like a theme park. Except it's not it's supposed to be a functioning city. Except it's like it's kind of hard to function when there's that many people around like just driving from point A to point B is like near impossible.

Christine Hetzel: 9:46

Okay, so yeah, from like 45,000 to half a million.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 9:51

Yeah, that's a lot of people for not a lot and you know, and it's fun, but you just have to be prepared and go with it. plan you can't just like decide. I'm gonna go to Salem today. Like that's not a good plan.

Christine Hetzel: 10:07

Okay, so you hear that my spontaneous friends, this is not for you to decide for the month of October to just head on up there after listening to this episode. So we will learn a lot more from Colleen about some of her favorite things and places to see later on in this episode, because I've interrupted her enough to let her get back to the Salem witch trials. So I apologize for calling. But thank you for that little that little aside of making sure folks plan ahead of time I'm just

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 10:32

doing my, my duty on behalf of all the residents of Salem. Yeah, that you know, it is which city that's its nickname. But yeah, we'll talk about the witch trials because back in 1692, when the trials were taking place, you know, they didn't really embrace witches there the way that they do today. So back in 1692, the residents of CLM were Puritans, which were an extreme Christian religious group that had fled England due to religious persecution. And there was Salem town, which was where present day Salem is. And Salem Village which is like the surrounding area where present day Danvers, Massachusetts is. And Salem town was more built up. It was like right on the water, where the wealthy merchants and sea captains lived and conducted their business. And Salem Village was more of the farmland, those who were working the land and were less wealthy. But everyone kind of took their religion really seriously. So they very much believed that the devil and witches existed in the world, and we're out there doing evil. So now we'll just talk about some of the important players in the Salem Witch Trials story. We've got the Putnam family and the Paris family. The Putnams were a wealthy family in Salem Village, with Thomas and N and Jr. They were a well connected family. And they brought Samuel Paris in as the pastor of Salem in 1689. And along with Samuel Parris, he brought his wife, his children, his niece, Abigail Williams, and he had slaves named Tichka. And John Indian.

Christine Hetzel: 12:19

I'm gonna interrupt you here. So to tuba and John Indian. They were married, correct? Yes, they

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 12:25

were,

Christine Hetzel: 12:26

I guess, I don't know if they would have been observed as being married. But they were a couple.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 12:30

I believe so. Yes. Okay. Okay, well,

Christine Hetzel: 12:33

so that I think is a good point for people to kind of put those names into the back of their head a little bit, because that'll come up in in just a few moments. We'll hear more about that. In about 60 seconds. We're also going to have that first pace change. And I'm really curious, Coleen, if I can interrupt, I know that you actually are a avid wellness is very important to you, you get out and you're physically active. So whenever you have the opportunity to do a pace change, I think you tend to use some of the running scared episodes for more of an elliptical workout. What do you do? Do you take it up a notch you play with the incline? I'm so curious how that works on the elliptical,

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 13:06

I do I kick up the incline, every time we do a phase change.

Christine Hetzel: 13:11

All right, my friends. So make it your own, we're gonna have that opportunity to kick up the incline or you can always pull it back into a walk. There's nothing wrong with just making this your own and really customizing it for you. And again, I'm going to not interrupt quite as much as we go into this next two minutes segment in just 10 seconds. And 5432 and one I write Colleen, I apologize. You were telling us all about the Putnams and the Paris family.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 13:42

Yes. And so now we're in like the winter of 1692. You know, it's it's Massachusetts, it's really cold long winter. And some of the girls in Salem began exhibiting some really strange behaviors. So they would have like convulsive fits and like hallucinations. And it kind of started with with Ann Putnam Jr. and Abigail Williams, and Samuel Paris's daughter, Betty. So a doctor came in examine them, but the doctor couldn't find any medical cause for their illness. So of course, then the blame is placed on the supernatural. So Samuel Paris, he was really pressuring the children to identify who was be watching them. The children identified Tituba and two other women who are considered on the margins of society. And their names are Sarah good and Sarah Osborne. Now what kind of things get you on a Puritans bad side? Well, Sarah good was poor. She was a beggar. And Sarah Osborne was romantically involved with an indentured servant. And then we have Tituba and she was not white. And to pass the time with the children in her care, she would show them fortune telling you Rick's like looking at the shapes of an egg white in water to determine your future husband. So like things that we would probably think were pretty harmless.

Christine Hetzel: 15:10

Right? Yeah. Not so much back then. Like so yeah. The lessons learned here is it in this time being broke, or God forbid, having a romantic relationship or just not being white is enough to get you on bad side. But definitely don't play with egg whites because that's, that's all bad. Friends, we're gonna take it back into our next conversation pace and keep learning more about this in three, two, and one back into our conversation pace. So we've learned a few of the things that may have thrown them off to, to definitely look at the Sarah's and still feel like I'm mispronouncing her name to to teach you or teach you. Okay, thank you.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 15:51

Yeah, it doesn't take much to to be considered like a witch during this time period. Really, these were not like anything to do with like actual witchcraft. But yeah, we'll keep getting more and more into that. But yeah, like when, when they were all named they Tituba and the two SAROS, they were arrested. Now Tituba was released and survived the trials because she wound up confessing to witchcraft. So I always found this super interesting. If you confessed, you were saved.

Christine Hetzel: 16:26

I find that fascinating too. And I know that you're gonna give us more as to why those may have been in the little bit that I know of. And friends, please know, I can't even pronounce names half the time cities. Gosh, you know, if you've listened to any of my episodes before I struggle through practically a pronunciation of everything. So it's not like my knowledge is grand. But I will say the little bit that I know is it seems like it parallels a lot of what had happened in Europe in terms of confession was always a way to get like a less severe punishment, or maybe some leniency when your families that were left behind, were taken care of. And they utilize a lot of like punishment or the threat of punishment, to force people into making confession. So I'm not surprised by this. But it is kind of interesting, too, because I think it kind of plays out to today's culture as well, where we kind of want folks to immediately confess anything that may have been perceived as a slight or anything, but we'll get into that later. I'll let you keep talking about the Salem witch trials,

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 17:29

ya know, and it's almost like, you know, you couldn't win, like, either you're confessing and then you know, people think you're a witch, but you live or you deny it, but they're gonna get you anyway. Like, they're gonna take you out and convict you.

Christine Hetzel: 17:44

I am super curious. Do we know about people who may have confessed and not actually killed or have a severe punishment? Were they ostracized? They end up having to leave the area?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 17:55

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure specifically what happened to like the people who confessed, but I just know that they were not hanged. None of the people who were hanged, confessed all the people who who hanged, went to trial and were convicted. But they they were denying it the whole time maintaining their innocence. And yeah, and I know that teacher but didn't survive the trials.

Christine Hetzel: 18:17

So she survived because she confessed, and let's be honest, that was probably a very smart approach of making sure that she did actually survive and live to tell a tale. But the Sarah's they were like, Absolutely not, we're not confessing to something that's completely false and untrue. So what happens to them? Yeah,

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 18:33

they didn't confess. And so Sarah, good was hanged in July of 1692. Sandra Osborne died in jail before she could be hanged, which happened to you know, a number of people as well, the jails were just like, terrible, terrible conditions. You know, it wasn't it wasn't fun to be there.

Christine Hetzel: 18:52

I'm thinking that likely they didn't have any kind of lawyers looking out for their civil rights. At that time, there was no constitution. So definitely there was this was not the place to be. So do they? Did they just potentially get illnesses?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 19:08

Yeah, I do think there's a lot of like, illness getting passed around, and just the conditions were filthy. You know, because the jails were more like almost like a dungeon. They were, you know, just like, dirt, yucky floors, and you know, you're kind of like hanging out with a bunch of people and like, all of their waste and bodily fluids. And you know, it just was like, super gross.

Christine Hetzel: 19:31

I'm kind of picturing rats and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. Wild. Imagine that. You want to be there. So I agree. I could see where that's unfortunate that that was kind of how they had to live out the rest of their lives. But I don't know if that's a better if that would be worse or better than being here.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 19:46

I know. It's like no good choices here. But yeah, actually the first person who was hanged for witchcraft in Salem, her name was Bridget bishop, and now she was accused goosed, or like they say she was accused because she had a really nice piece of property in Salem town. She ran a tavern and she wore bright colored clothing, you know that. So these were all Yeah, I know.

Christine Hetzel: 20:13

Definitely can't get away with any god forbid you have like something sparkly or glittery back then I just that's not. So I find that interesting as well. While they're very puritanical she's still running a tavern, meaning it's, I assume a business that's operating. So somebody's going to the tavern is this pastor buyers drivers through ORS not to overthrow us, but people coming? Yeah,

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 20:36

well, you know, San Juan was like a, you know, it was a port and a lot of ships coming in. And, and so people lived there, there's like, townfolk, but there's also a lot of visitors coming, coming in and out. And, you know, one of the tours I was on recently, they were talking about how another reason, like she was kind of able to do all this stuff, which sounds really, I don't know, like progressive, I guess for the time period, like she owned property and ran a tavern. But, you know, there was, it was still a property of England at that time. So they were running on like that law. And that's different from like, the Puritan law, like the Bible law that they were following. So it didn't exactly line up with the actual, you know, towns, people's perceptions of, you know, what they considered right. They were like, they didn't like that she was doing all this stuff. But you know, she was allowed to, but they just didn't like it.

Christine Hetzel: 21:33

Got it. So unfortunate. She was the first one to go, I assume that. Well, you you're, I think at a telethon a little bit like, what happened to all this progressive stuff that she had me she has property she's got, I assume a certain amount of wealth, I would think taverns bring in.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 21:51

So Well, that's the thing, like, when a person was tried for witchcraft, the state could seize their property. So that's why it was so important. In her case, and in other people's cases, like, people who had nice property, or where there were property disputes among neighbors, like it just this, accusing someone of witchcraft became a tool to basically take someone's land. So yeah, it didn't really have anything to do with actual witchcraft. They were out for your property.

Christine Hetzel: 22:22

So modern day issues that we hear about people having like arguing with a neighbor over their tree being a part of their land, but back, if we'd lived back then all you had to do was just say, hey, they're a witch. And that's it, that tree that part of your life.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 22:35

Exactly. This became like a solution of sorts. Yeah, so that's definitely like, you know, you can see the motivations behind some of these accusations. There's land disputes, gender, and social norms, economic status, all of these things played a role. And one of the accused a man named Giles Corey, he didn't want to lose his property to the accusations. So he actually like, sort of found this loophole. It didn't actually work out that well for him, but he refused to enter a plea. So he wouldn't say guilty or not guilty. So that meant his property couldn't be seized. So what happened to him in an effort to get him to enter a plea, he was actually pressed to death under heavy rocks. And it took a long time, like much longer than, you know, actually just hanging. But it's actually said that he cursed the Town of Salem, specifically the office of Sheriff. So the story goes that several sheriffs in CLM, over the years have died of heart issues, and that the cursor is only broken when the sheriff's office moved out of Salem in 1991. So how crazy is that? It's

Christine Hetzel: 23:51

pretty interesting series. And I want to definitely talk more about that friends, you've got that pace change coming up right here in three, two, and one, you can either bump up that incline regardless of hitting the treadmill, elliptical, maybe a stair stepper, or take it a little faster, or pull it back into more of a recovery for this segment. But I'm see this is where I had learned that pressing was something that they would do quite often in Europe when they wanted to seize property from the accused, if they pled guilty, they would have it less severe form of punishment, but that means their families wouldn't be left with virtually penniless. And it sounds like they were exactly whether or not they wanted to be different from or escape religious persecution. They were applying what they had learned in Europe or in England, and bringing it here and from my understanding is pressing is like one of the worst ways to go and maybe like the worst way because it takes days of immense pressure.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 24:46

It just seems awful. Like all the sort of like things you see at the museums. It's just like he's just crushed under all of these rocks. And every time they ask him, How do you plead? And he just said has more weight and just keep adding more if he's like boulders on top of him, it seems awful, very torturous.

Christine Hetzel: 25:07

I mean, I could see why he cursed the sheriff's office, I think I likely would too. I don't know that I could bear that. I don't know that I have the strength to say more way, instead of actually, I think at that point, I probably would have just caved in like, fine. Like I'm guilty. Right. But again, I'm sure that part of it was that desire to make sure that his family didn't have that property taken away from them. So that's, that's yeah, quite, quite interesting. So we're going to take it into our final segment, which is not so to me that we're already here. And I'm gonna let you finish up. And then I want to learn all about you and where you would tell us to go to Salem. So let's go ahead and pull it back into our final segment, we're going to be here for 20 minutes. So find a really good solid conversation pace. Find yourself at home there. And let's get after it in three, two, and one. Okay, so he died from pressing, let's like zero stars, we're not recommending that it's not getting a good Yelp review ever.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 26:09

Yes, he died from processing. And you know, the next thing that kind of happens, well, I guess not the next thing, but sort of simultaneous all of these trials going on. Another thing that I want to mention, that's like super weird when you think about it today. But back then during these trials, they allow something called spectral evidence to be considered like valid proof of witchcraft. So what that is, is, is basically made up it's the opposite of evidence, you could go into court, and you could say that you had a dream or a vision of someone doing something witchy like flying or turning into an animal, reciting the devil's book, and like, on and on. But this evidence is only seen in a vision by the accuser. So it's impossible to refute. But so many of these convictions involved this spectral evidence. I'm fascinated

Christine Hetzel: 27:07

by this, because to me, it's like, okay, so part of how we would accuse somebody of witchcraft is that they had hallucinations, or convulsions. But hallucination so that's witchcraft. But if you have visions of other people being witches, that's good. That counts. Like you're, you're a okay. I'm also fascinated by that. Because if I was, I don't know about you ever calling. But just to talk a little bit about maybe one of my weird insecurities. I've always had those weird dreams or like, my other half might be cheating on me and wake up and feel really angry with him something guys, you should have been super scared back then. Because you could have eventually just been saying, Hey, you're definitely cheating because I dropped.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 27:43

That's about 100%. Like, proof of like someone cheating. Yes, in 1692.

Christine Hetzel: 27:50

It's absolutely true.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 27:52

Yeah, there was no like boundary between real life and your dreams. They were just like, oh, that's totally legit. Yeah,

Christine Hetzel: 27:59

that's all in the span of pretty much a short period of time. What goes on if people are I mean, people are getting accused of being witches left and right during 6092.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 28:09

Yeah, it's so wacky, that this only happened in like the span of like a year. But yeah, so the trials came to an end in the spring of 1693. Basically, the accusers went too high up the food chain, and they accused the governor's wife of witchcraft. So they kind of like, you know, they felt empowered with, you know, they're, they have all this power, and they kind of went too far with it. So at this time, spectral evidence was limited in the trials as well. So that left very little evidence of anything at all. So in the end, 19, people were hanged for witchcraft, and then Giles Corey, one person was pressed to death, and others died in jail, or just had their lives ruined because of accusations. So that's kind of how the trials all came to an end,

Christine Hetzel: 29:00

really, I mean, thankfully. And it goes to show like the mass hysteria that can kind of come into play with that, and also find it fascinating that it pretty much came to an end because you can accuse a beggar or maybe the town, business woman who you may have issues with, but you can't take it up too far up the food chain, probably even in this day and age. So that's interesting. So now, Salem has this incredible one year history that creates like, as you mentioned, at the beginning, centuries worth of people still being fascinated about it. How did we get How did it become known as like, which city or which town like how did that translate?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 29:42

So when did the tides change? And then we decided we liked which. So some centuries later, in 1970, there was a popular TV series named B, which maybe you've seen it. They filmed eight episodes in Salem, and to commemorate the filming TV land donated a statue of Elizabeth Montgomery SMU at the Stevens who's the witch from switched. This is a really popular photo op for tourists and Salem. And it's kind of funny because people always comment how the statue The face looks nothing like Elizabeth Montgomery, the face is actually really kind of ugly. If you look at it closely, it's like, scary. But yeah, and some locals take issue with the statue because it has nothing to do with the actual Salem witch trials. But other locals saw the opportunity to embrace tourism, and that was the beginnings of which city and a booming tourist industry. So that was like 1970 but also around that time, like 1971 There was a woman named Laurie Cabot and she first witch shop in Salem. She was really open about practicing witchcraft and raised her two daughters as witches was just like, she really was a trailblazer. Because all of this the 1970s long before social media popularized all things witchy and at that time, being a witch was considered really taboo. So her shop was called crow Haven corner and it's still there to this day, but she doesn't own it anymore. That's actually one of my favorite buildings in Salem. It's really cool looking. It's like black and purple on the outside. It has a really beautiful garden in the back. And just like when Laurie owned the shop, it sells all kinds of witchy items, tarot decks, crystals, jewelry, or herbs, books and of course offers readings. And Laurie Cabot does still live in Salem. She has a different shop called Enchanted, which is also a really great shop that's right on Pickering Wharf, and you can buy candles, spell kits, and sometimes you can get a reading from her there. She does, on occasion offer classes in person and online. She's basically a living legend in the witchy world. And the former governor dubbed her the official witch of Salem. So Laurie Cabot had a huge role in popularizing witchcraft today and making Salem into witch city.

Christine Hetzel: 32:20

I love that and I'm going to link those two locations as well, since I know they're kind of some of your favorite places and friends may be planning their 2028 Salem visit themselves.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 32:33

Yes, definitely stop at those places. They're really cool. But yes, um, so these days witches are incorporated into the names and logos of all kinds of businesses in Salem from taxi cabs, plumbers, car repair shops, the police and fire departments. The list goes on and on. And quiet and quarantined and chanted are nowhere near the only two wood shops in Salem, I can think of at least a dozen others as well as like multiple museums, historical sites, things related to the witch trials. And then you have things that are not related, but again, just sale and became like a magnet for all things weird and spooky. So you've got like haunted houses, Pirate museums, big board, museums, movie monster attractions, there's a 3d Halloween Museum. The Satanic Temple is headquartered in Salem. And like so many walking tours, boat tours, souvenir shops, old and beautiful cemeteries, it just really is like, so many strange and unusual but wonderful things.

Christine Hetzel: 33:41

So it sounds like it's like an absolute Haven at this point. And or do we still see a lot of maybe left over mythologies still being brought to attention? Or is it our people, they're really trying to bust those myths?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 33:59

I feel like these days people want to bust the myth. I mean, I know that there's like, loads of Tor groups out there and they're not, you know, all of the same caliber, I'd say like, some of them are local, and some are not local. And so, yeah, some are just, you know, maybe sort of embellishing for their their tours or just sensationalizing different things. But I do feel like overall, people want to stay true and give an accurate picture of what's going on.

Christine Hetzel: 34:33

So I'd love if you would help to kind of myth bust with me a little bit here because again, as you mentioned, local versus non local all the way down in Florida. I definitely would consider myself a non local and would probably be very easily tied down with maybe some beliefs that are inaccurate.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 34:51

Yes. And so well, the first thing that I should say is that witches don't have anything to do with the devil. Oh, it's totally separate from witchcraft. And I know Salem does have the Satanic Temple, which is like a whole nother story. Because they don't like actually worship the devil either. You just use a lot of that imagery. But witchcraft. Yeah, totally different. Nothing to do with the devil. Nothing like what the back in 1692 they thought like, women were going out into the woods and like dancing with the actual devil like, there's no that's not what witchcraft is. And from the Salem witch trials, let's see what else can I tell you? Oh yeah, well the big one is people often think that witches were burned, but they weren't burned in Salem. They were that was like more of a European thing. The witches in Salem, as we already talked about, they were hanged. And then the one guy was pressed to death. So no burning going on in Salem. Yeah, and the other one that I keep hearing pretty often is this like idea that some of the food was poisoned, like Ergo poisoning.

Christine Hetzel: 36:13

Wow. And I just couldn't really wrap my brain around. I'm like, why would it only target the women or the girls?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 36:19

Yes. And that was my exact thought of I'm like, I don't think this is true. Yeah. Like, if everybody's eating the food, and it's poison, they would all have had those symptoms. So, so no, I don't believe that. And I know like people who actually like know about the science of things, and history and whatever, have legit debunked it. But yeah, I just think that doesn't make sense for that same reason you said,

Christine Hetzel: 36:44

Now, I'd love to know more about like you and how you came to live in Salem how you practice? You're a practicing witch. Hopefully, I'm saying that correctly. And maybe if you could help to separate witch from Wiccan because I think that's something that I personally, probably interchange, probably inappropriately interchange those two phrases quite frequently.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 37:09

Yeah, yeah. And you know, a lot of people do that. I think so. So let's see, how did I come to Salem? So I've always been into like, weird and witchy things like for forever. Halloween was always my favorite holiday growing up. And yeah, I got into witchcraft. In high school. I think like the craft came out when I was in my high school age and right movie. I feel like definitely witchcraft had like a moment in that like, 1990s time period.

Christine Hetzel: 37:44

First of all, for the record, I'm pretty positive. Anyway,

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 37:52

yeah. And so I just kind of got into it at that time, you know, reading books and stuff like that. And I had friends that were into it, as well. So, so we just kind of got into it that way. And it just never went away from us. So as an adult, I did take really frequent like pilgrimages to Salem, I guess you could call it that. I felt like a lot of witchy types do that, you know, they'll take a trip once a year or something to go to Salem to sort of like pay respects to these people that lost their lives. And also like stop at all the cool witchy shops and stock up on your items. So yeah, I spent many years visiting Salem and I just couldn't get it out of my head that I wanted to live there. So during COVID I had the opportunity to sell my house and just like pick up and go so that is what I did. So I moved to Salem and and about a year and change there so yeah, it's really it's it's definitely an experience it's a really unique town and a lot of like yeah really like weird but cool in a good way people

Christine Hetzel: 39:14

I feel like it they have completely embraced being able to march to the beat of your own drum were back in 1692 That was the complete opposite of anything that was acceptable. So I do appreciate that. But so you you embrace it yourself and is there I feel like it's not just that though you actually brought this into your everyday business because now you have wellness which Taro and I love for the record friends. I met Colleen and she did do a tarot reading for me a few years back I think actually when the COVID when the COVID when the pandemic in the earlier days, and we've stayed in touch here and there but she has such an incredible business where she really helps I think empower women to kind of tune in more into their own intuition. And she utilizes that through her coaching, which I love. So tell me more about how you decided to take something that you love that you've practiced that you've spent a lot of time and energy and learning. And how did that, like, how did you assimilate that into what you do with your own business?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 40:22

Yeah, this is like another thing I'm gonna blame on COVID or credit, I should credit COVID Like a good thing. It's not likely, but I was you know, reading Tarot for myself, just for like my own purposes. I got really into taro probably in like 2018 was when I took some more like formal classes to read, I you know, I had had cards before that, but I kind of like actually sat down and put more effort into it then. And, and then when COVID happened, my massage practice was closed for a while, a good chunk of that year, so I just decided to take my, my personal reading taro and start to offer readings as a business for other people. And I just, you know, put myself out there, I created a website and a Facebook group. I mean, honestly, a lot of it was like, using Tarot to cope with what was going on during that year, because it was so difficult for everybody. The world was like drastically changing and everything was so uncertain. And, and that's really, when I feel like Tarot comes in handy. It's, you know, it helps you to sort of like calm and center yourself, and sort of see what's going on. And it just will put my mind at ease to use the cards. And, and yeah, I wanted to be able to extend that to other people as well.

Christine Hetzel: 41:57

So I'd love to learn more about the Tarot. So when I hear of Tarot from when I was younger, and maybe watching the craft, and now I have a very different perception of it originally did feel very much like it's something that we would put a lot of credit behind, like telling us our future or fortune telling back to kind of that egg white from the story or from the history of what happened at Salem witch trials. But my understanding now is that it's more of something that kind of helps you to be a little bit more inner reflective, and listen more to kind of what feelings are stirred up and what your intuition may say, is that accurate?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 42:36

I mean, that's, that's how I use it. I think that there can be like, you know, a use for it, like you're saying more like fortune telling and, you know, and people who maybe do have, like psychic abilities might, you know, use the tarot cards as a tool to, you know, more of like that telling the actual future or, you know, stuff like that. But, but yes, for me, it's more of a reflective tool. It more is like using it as a conversation starter. So we can, yeah, like you say, discuss what feelings are coming up? How does that make you feel and kind of work through our problems that way. And I'm really like solution oriented. So I always like to leave my readings with like a next step and action step. And so even if we can't totally solve the problem, because you know, problems are complicated, and not necessarily like a Tarot reading is going to fix everything. But at least you can determine the next step or like a path of a way forward a way through. And it just kind of prompts you to think outside of the box a little bit. And I find that really valuable, especially in stressful situations.

Christine Hetzel: 43:55

I love that as well. And now I'm going to ask one of the hardest, meanest questions that I tend to ask because it's what I always do is like, how do you do this? But do you have a favorite deck?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 44:04

Oh my gosh.

Christine Hetzel: 44:07

That's so mean. Because how do you pick up those friends? If you are rolling through the workout and you're thinking What are you talking about? Because I think most folks kind of traditionally think of maybe like the Rider Waite deck or some of the more traditional decks but now there is a plethora, I think I saw Hocus Pocus, Disney Villains I've seen everything. And then of course there's smaller, like more of like an Etsy seller who are artists who's created some really beautiful decks. So I know that's likely hard, but if you can maybe narrow it down to like three and I'll include those in Episode Notes as well.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 44:37

Okay, yes, I think I can narrow down to three even as you're talking. I'm like switch my mind like six times. But I have to mention because you know, I'm a Halloween person. The Halloween Tarot is one of my favorites and I use that one during the month of October only so it's very like special to me. Okay, so that's that's up there. And then I love one there's one called the modern witch tarot, which is very, very similar to our fighter wait. So I highly recommend this for a first deck, because you can. Most instructions for learning Tarot are geared towards using a Rider Waite deck. So if you have a deck that's like similar to that, it just makes it easier to learn. And then this modern which Taro has, it's very similar, just updated imagery. So you'll see, you know, you'll see people of color represented in it, you'll see people you know, with disabilities, you'll see maybe just like more modern things in the pictures like laptops and cell phones, and so it just feels a little more relatable, and a little bit more inclusive. So that's, that's another one that is a go to for me. And then the third one that I've really bonded with is called the moon void Tarot. And I picked that up at a shop in Salem called hive and forge. So another great place to stop if you're in Salem, they sell a lot of like independent makers and stuff, sell their wares there. So it's like super unique, and not your typical like tourist place. But Moonboy Taro is like, the colors are pink and black in that deck. And the imagery is really beautiful. And I like that one for up more like relationship type readings. That one kind of, I guess vibes with me for that

Christine Hetzel: 46:40

it calls to friends, we are going to because I'm thinking you guys are off by thinking that your cooldown is talking to you or calling to you. So let's go ahead and bring it down a trickle down, walk in three, two, and one. And friends. This is what I'm going to ask Colleen, I want you to come back like 1000 times. So can you stay at least another five minutes during this cooldown and give us a little bit more information? Because this is just so fascinating stuff. And I have more questions. Yes, absolutely. Okay, great. Thank you. So a couple of things that come to mind as you're talking about these tarot cards and how many of them they are available in like beginners versus maybe some of them ones that are that don't necessarily follow the traditional suits, or they've been interpreted a little bit differently. The first thing that comes to mining some of the most beautiful imagery that I see when I look at decks is actually from oracle decks. Now how to oracle decks differ from tarot decks?

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 47:32

Yeah, so, I work with oracle cards as well. So the taro are typically like a 78 card deck and they're broken down, you have your major arcana, and then you have your four suits. And then the suits are all numbered. So there's just kind of like more structure to it, I would say, oracle decks are definitely more like, you know, I don't know, they're more like open and they can vary a lot more. So they can have like any number of cards like any theme. They are just like so unique to each deck. And I find usually with oracle cards the messages are almost like more consistently like uplifting you know, tarot can be sometimes you know, you have the cards that are a little bit of like downers, but what Oracle, usually if you just want a nice positive message for your day, pull an Oracle Card, it's like short and sweet. You only really need one and, and you can pick for oracle decks. Yeah, like the artworks vary so much. And there's like something for everyone out there.

Christine Hetzel: 48:40

So I'm glad that you said that. I kind of think of the Oracle when I think of oracle cards. First of all, I have not seen an Oracle deck that I didn't think was beautiful from just first glance. And second of all, when I think of oracle decks, I kind of do think of back to what I was saying where it is very, like set an intention for the day are kind of an affirmation of the day. That's kind of what comes to mind when I see oracle decks. I'm not sure if that's actually what most people would do. But that's kind of what comes to my mind when I see them.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 49:04

Yeah, that's a great use for an Oracle deck. And then a great

Christine Hetzel: 49:07

way for people if you guys are curious about all of these things again, I'm going to link how to stay in touch with Colleen. But one of my favorite places on the internet is her very own Facebook community page called Tea and taro and there are a few of them. So I'm going to link directly to it. I'm gonna ask you guys to head on over there. You're gonna see me over there liking her daily posts, because she usually will do a daily card and a daily T, which I think is quite beautiful. And it always puts a little smile on my face. And I think you tend to pull your daily card specifically for this group kind of like as a group.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 49:46

And yeah, is that right? Yes. When I'm pulling the cards in that group, I will pull a card every day and my intention when I pull the card is what do we as a group as our community, what do we all need to know today? So it's you know, it's usually like a little more general message. And I will put multiple meanings for the same card on there. So you can pick what sounds applicable to you each day and take that message with you.

Christine Hetzel: 50:13

I think what's awesome, lovely about that, too, is that it such a great place and as I said, in the little corner of the internet, because you get to see that this particular card that may have different meanings to different folks, but that for the general consensus of people is that no matter where we're at, in our lives, we have a lot of similar feelings as to what's going on. And it's great to feel that camaraderie of other individuals who maybe are struggling with specific decisions that they need to make or they're already having that gut instinct that something's brewing but they're not haha, not didn't even mean upon that, but I'm just gonna go ahead and chuckle at it. But something's just not feeling right and then seeing this card and people kind of having that aha moment of like, that's what I've been, you know, kind of neglecting to pay attention to do you see that a lot when you do your your tarot, not just your readings because you do coaching as well, which I love that you use Tarot content to influence or to help with? Do you see like people like, ah, that's what I've been trying to get up, but I just couldn't it couldn't pull

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 51:13

it out. Yes, yes. I'm a mindfulness coach, as well. And so I incorporate that into my tarot readings. And, yeah, I feel like so often when people get readings, like, I'm not a psychic, I'm not telling them what's going on or what's going to happen. It's like they already know like, you already know what's going on. You're just like coming to me and coming to the tarot cards to confirm it for you. We're all our own best guides.

Christine Hetzel: 51:42

And that's exactly what I love so much. Because I think that whenever I work with my coaching clients, one of the things that I always try to take away into a conversation is I can't tell you what's best for you. I can give you ideas, we can talk and explore about different pathways, but at the end of the day that it helps what I'm hearing you say is that what you do is really empowers your clients. That's what the biggest takeaway is, is empower them to like use that knowledge they know is right for them.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 52:07

Yes. 100% Yes,

Christine Hetzel: 52:09

I love that Colleen, I swear, I could talk to you for probably four more hours and friends you would end up having to go start training for a marathon if if I had my way, but we're gonna go ahead and wrap up this conversation here. And I'm going to make sure that folks have all of the links because I'm very excited that right here right now we're gonna go ahead and put out into the world that you guys can sign up to join her email list on her website on Callie's website because the wellness which Terrell podcast will be coming it to wherever you consume your podcast your podcasts are sending out very soon and you definitely want to be in the loop for when her first season drops. Thank you again. Colleen. I still very much loved chatting with you and you sharing all of this history for us for this Halloween day.

Colleen - Wellness Witch Tarot: 52:55

Thank you so much and have a wonderful Halloween everybody.

Christine Hetzel: 52:59

Thank you all for having such a great workout and hanging out with us. Go ahead and join us at the running scared community page as well. Let us know what you thought of today's conversation. I'm sure you're all going to ask me to bring Colleen back and Colleen I'm definitely asking you back. Thank you for running scared with Coach Christine